Chat log of Bridge Base Online session for vugraph37 starting at: Mon Jun 14 12:54:48 2004

tejjyid: Welcome one, welcome all
tejjyid: this is the last round of the Victor Champion Cup, one of Austarlaia's national tournaments
tejjyid: Nagy & Lilley are playing on the Neill team, which is currently ahead (on countback)
vugraph37: just setting up the names
vugraph37: we will be covering the other room
tejjyid: REsults and teams & other details can be found at http://www.abf.com.au/events/vcc/index.html
vugraph37: 1 minute to the opening bell
shevek: welcome everyone, we have more specs than commentators, guess we can start
shevek: since Roland is not here I think we can introduce ourselves?
vugraph37: ======================31
vugraph37: players just going through their prealerts
dbetter1: Welcome to everyone
tejjyid: Sure, Andrew Webb, Australian expert
junyi_zhu: Hello everyone
dbetter1: This is the final set of the Victor's Cup from Australia
dbetter1: Your commentators tonight are Andrew Webb and Nicoleta Giura from Australia, and myself, David Better, USA
uday (Broadcast): On vugraph now: The final set of the Victor's Cup from Australia.
tejjyid: and Junyi too I think DAvid, welcome all
vugraph37: all set to go. just waiting for the director to say go
shevek: ok, tonight fine, 1pm here though :)
dbetter1: and Junyi Shu - thanks!
tejjyid: Nicoletta, do you know Hoffmans partner at all?
shevek: Neill - Klinger play strong club & 1!D = hearts, 1!H = spades
tejjyid: Klinger Neill are 1/3 of Australia's team this year
shevek: David Wawn
shevek: from Canberra
junyi_zhu: this hand will be a competition of partials, north-south can make 3S, e-w can make 2D
tejjyid: Thats a very weak strong !C
dbetter1: Ron Klinger has written many of the books on ACOL - and he's sitting down and playing strong club here
tejjyid: Ron has written books on everything david
dbetter1: quite true :)
vugraph37: i think klinger's system is more like polish club
tejjyid: I think he should be made to play "Power" as a punishment for inventing it  :-)
dbetter1: a prolific and superb bridge author - and player
shevek: I should say a forcing club (not neccess strong)
dbetter1: its a treat for us on the other side of the ocean to get to see him play - we don't get much opportunity
tejjyid: He has represented Australia with 6 or 7 different partners over a 25 year period
junyi_zhu: hard to find SK lead which would be killing
shevek: pity Neill couldn't bid 1!S in system
shevek: Ron Klinger - since 1976 represented Australia in 8 world chships and olympiads
tejjyid: !CQ delays the decision
tejjyid: time to claim
dbetter1: defense has discarded well, and not left Hoffman any chance for an overtrick
vugraph37: =======================32
tejjyid: Neill, sitting North, was a pioneer of Forcing pass systems here in Australia, & has represented Australia playing ...
tejjyid: Regres
shevek: ns can make 10 tricks in !S
tejjyid: He likes to bid; he msut think that 1!C is strrong
shevek: not vul vs vul - time to play :)
tejjyid: Klinger has applied Bergen's Law
dbetter1: Andrew, it always has seemed that Australian pairs are as willing to experiment with bidding systems and defenses as ...
dbetter1: pairs from any countries in the world
tejjyid: We are pretty lucky I think that our regulations are not too stifling
shevek: maybe that's why Oz doesn't do very well in international competitions ?   :)
tejjyid: In fact I am opposed to most system regulations :-)
dbetter1: does that apply at lower levels as well as at this level of competition?
tejjyid: So I will not be moving to the USA too soon :-)
shevek: Yellow systems (HUM) are prohibited in the first 2 rounds and in any matches against  a team 
dbetter1: definitely not!! the US is probably more restrictive than any country in the world
shevek: with a current position in the lowest 65% of the field
shevek: In other words you can play anything you like if you're doing well :)
vugraph37: hoffman in the tank
tejjyid: An example of how absurd regulations are; you can play the best team in the country when they are having a bad patch & ...
tejjyid: be forced not to use your best weapons
shevek: he should stay in the tank imo
tejjyid: I think Wawn should X 3!S for T/O
dbetter1: well, if he needs practice in playing his 3-1 fits, here's his chance!
shevek: one off, maybe 2?
dbetter1: (sorry, wrong bidding :) )
tejjyid: on the information given (N has a good hand) declarer cannot get !C right
dbetter1: they were likely to make at least 3S, so nothing bad happening here
tejjyid: I would've been tempted by 5!C when partner didnt try 3NT 
tejjyid: of course, it depends what you think his hesitation means :-)
junyi_zhu: seems west should have ruffed DQ earlier
dbetter1: these pass or defend auctions where the opponents preempt you are always tough
vugraph37: ==================17
dbetter1: bid or defend
tejjyid: yes NS did wel
shevek: we can compare scores now
junyi_zhu: 2S is an interesting contract in the closed room
shevek: wonder how they got there
tejjyid: it sure is
junyi_zhu: perhaps 1C -1S -2S
dbetter1: Jxx opposite 10xxx is not what Moyse had in mind - but when you go plus you are happy
shevek: !s back?
tejjyid: or possible T/O double auction
shevek: lol   david
shevek: looks like 5imps to Klinger
tejjyid: Klinger thinking about overtricks?
tejjyid: well played & defended
vugraph37: ===================18
dbetter1: Sonny Moyse, 40-50 years ago was editor and publisher of The Bridge World - and was perhaps to first to truly espouse ...
dbetter1: the merits of playing 4-3 fits
dbetter1: however, his examples were usually aq10x opposite kjx
dbetter1: not jxx opposite 10xxxx
dbetter1: 10xxx
tejjyid: My grand slams always have 13 tricks in my articles David
tejjyid: Just not in real lifew
junyi_zhu: looks like a push for this hand
tejjyid: nothing dramatic here
dbetter1: we actually saw one today in the US team trials.. Meckwell bid to an excellent slam with aqx of diamonds opposite Kj10x
vugraph37: negotiaing a claim
tejjyid: the VCC has no final
dbetter1: the fact that they went minus and lost 13 imps in no way invalidates the idea
tejjyid: so the winner after the swiss is the winner
vugraph37: ===================19
shevek: do you think it should be a final, andrew?
shevek: do you think it should be a final, andrew?
tejjyid: Well, it has a unique character without a final
shevek: Seems a bit random as it is. winner is whoever is lucky enough to be in front when the music stops.
tejjyid: But the top 2 teams playing off in the last round can be overtaken easily
shevek: btw, Neill is on 171 and Brightling on 165
tejjyid: Neill is leading on countback
junyi_zhu: DT is a good pitch
tejjyid: Their opponents here are lying 4th
vugraph37: ====================20
shevek: so Brightling needs to win this match at least 18-12 and hope nobody will overtake
dbetter1: and a nice few imps for Brightling
shevek: this is a good 4-3 !s fit david :)
dbetter1: nasty problem for Hoffman
tejjyid: TEams lying 2nd & 3rd do not have easy draws
junyi_zhu: probably they play negative double here
vugraph37: hoffman quizing klinger on complete structure vs. 1nt
dbetter1: this is what sonny had in mind!
dbetter1: but in his examples, the diamond finesse is always on
tejjyid: It sure is...beautifully timed hand David
shevek: 6 teams in contention (7 if you believe in miracles)
shevek: coming 7th Brifman team contains 2 international stars (Richard Jedrychowski and Jacek Pszczola)
tejjyid: and PEter GIll
shevek: for spelling I suggest "copy and paste" :)
dbetter1: 5D is a very nice contract to reach
shevek: correct andrew
dbetter1: and unlucky to go down
tejjyid: and so simply too, just by bidding suits & raising partner
tejjyid: I would be tempted to try 4!S on the way to 5!D
shevek: just calculating their chances... they need a draw here and a 25 win for a tie !!!
dbetter1: i like 4S - its a great bid if your partner recognizes that it means diamond support and an alternate spot to play - ...
dbetter1: which i think it should
dbetter1: 4S could certainly be your last making spot
tejjyid: Because they play 1Nt includes 5 major...he may have been worried about the 4-2 (sub-Moysian)
tejjyid: Mind you, that might make on a good day too
vugraph37: =============21
tejjyid: 6!D is a good contract played by N
junyi_zhu: 6D can be made by north
tejjyid: Neill likes to bid & is a good card player
dbetter1: does it make sense to take a negative double with the east hand rather than 4D - keeping spades, NT, and clubs in the ...
dbetter1: picture as contracts? (or even 3H doubled?)
tejjyid: I prefer the X David, if it is takeout
junyi_zhu: e-w will make a lot of noise for sure
shevek: I like 4!D 
junyi_zhu: many may bid 4H with west's hand
tejjyid: Neill attacks with 4!H
junyi_zhu: now it's wrong sided:)
tejjyid: which is why West should bid it first
shevek: 5!h is cold
shevek: now 6!d is cold :)
dbetter1: he looks in pretty good shape for 5D
dbetter1: non-club lead (normal singleton spade he led) should mean 6 of course
tejjyid: So, does Klinger trust Hoffman's 2! bid?
shevek: ??
tejjyid: no; this guarantees 5!D on all !S layouts
dbetter1: interesting that hoffman chose not to compete to 5H with a preemptive heart bid by partner at this vulnerability
junyi_zhu: this is a safe play
tejjyid: yes
dbetter1: very true
shevek: yes, claim coming up
tejjyid: Klinger has lost a finger :-)
junyi_zhu: hehe
vugraph37: he said he was going for lurkers
shevek: lol
vugraph37: =======================22
junyi_zhu: I call it another safe play, hehe
dbetter1: every one of us knows there seem to occasionally be 14 trump in the deck
tejjyid: lol
tejjyid: 5!D for NS
tejjyid: good chance for neill to get some imps
tejjyid: 4!C is an undistinguished result from the closed room
dbetter1: 4C down 4 not the best of results - hard to imagine Neill not picking up a bunch of imps here
junyi_zhu: now it's tough for north to bid
tejjyid: 2!S is such a bad bid; if partner has majors you want to be higher
dbetter1: a 3S bid would have made it very tough on Neill
shevek: just a few days ago Neill team won the McCance Trophy (seniors) so, congrats to them
tejjyid: imaginative but unlucky defence
vugraph37: concedes a !H
vugraph37: ===============23
Nyrolph: i am looking
tejjyid: this opening may propel NS to 5!H
tejjyid: interesting treatment by Neill
dbetter1: cokes for Adam
shevek: some chance to make??
tejjyid: if the Defence led !S before !C
dbetter1: Neill's going to be pretty disappointed in dummy - just enough to set 5D, not enough for him to avoid 500
shevek: friendly lead
junyi_zhu: down 2 after a simple club switch
shevek: 1 off now
shevek: doesn't lose the 2nd club
tejjyid: Decalre can duck this & maybe avoid the 2nd !C loser
junyi_zhu: east need to insert S9 
vugraph37: declarer claimed -1 but defence negotiated it to -2
dbetter1: ace and a spade from dummy would have put Wawn to a guess
vugraph37: ================24
tejjyid: careless claim
shevek: 4!h ?
junyi_zhu: 4D is a good bid which may help partner's 5 level decision sometimes
shevek: 11 tricks
tejjyid: South thinking about 6
shevek: must be careful in trumps
dbetter1: can't resist a trie
dbetter1: this is a great time for west to try and show a doubleton spade
tejjyid: as pedicted David
tejjyid: but the X probably showed the !SQ
dbetter1: he's unlucky? that declarer has 2 also (partner did bid 2s) - so even after a 3rd round of spades he can get hearts ...
dbetter1: right
shevek: that makes it easy
vugraph37: =================25
shevek: 3!d ?
junyi_zhu: e-w can make 3NT which might not be found easily
tejjyid: or 4!D if you are going to pre-empt
shevek: 3!c by Hoffman :)
junyi_zhu: well, not after a C lead
tejjyid: easy game 
dbetter1: a drop of the queen of spades on the second round would have made declarer have some unhappy moments - but he would have ...
dbetter1: started by ruffing the spade in hand, crossing to dummy and leading a low heart toward the A10- same result
vugraph37: hoffman rocking forward wiht a smile on his face
tejjyid: how does he know !D are breaking?
junyi_zhu: he has to hope so I suppose:)
dbetter1: now he's rocking forward faster and harder :)
dbetter1: even bigger smile :)
tejjyid: and some overtricks with a pseudo double squeeze
vugraph37: =========================26
tejjyid: we even get to see arelay auction
shevek: 1!h was positive with !ss
tejjyid: showing (no doubt) a 6421
shevek: 2!c = diamonds
vugraph37: klinger deep in the tank now
shevek: Klinger hopes for AKxxxx, xx, Axxx, x. Will reach 5H now.
dbetter1: lots of choices.. hearts better than spades?  look for a slam?
tejjyid: great system; we know everything except what level to play 
shevek: lol
junyi_zhu: hehe
tejjyid: NS are playing a relay system
dbetter1: one problem with being up so high.. if you want to cuebid, what's more important? ace of hearts, diamond king?, ...
dbetter1: singleton club?
tejjyid: with all bids coded artificially
dbetter1: tough when you have controls in all the suit
dbetter1: s
shevek: 4!s= BW in !ss
junyi_zhu: 4S is probably kickback in hearts?
tejjyid: trumps break, so no real problems
dbetter1: there's usually a break in the action at this point so the defense can have all the bids explained
shevek: I always thought that it should be a bonus for playing in 5!h / !s
tejjyid: Thats because you play relay too...actually there should be more punishmnet
dbetter1: blackwood for klinger here (4s bid) solved all problems
shevek: I was wrong 4!s was BW in !hs
tejjyid: 25% 4-1 trumps is not enough
shevek: thx andrew :)
vugraph37: ===============27
shevek: 11 tricks
shevek: think 4!C = relay, 4!D = end signal, 4!H = BW in spades, 4!S = BW in hearts
dbetter1: not only are we seeing potentially different philosophies in the bidding here by the two teams - we can see it in the ...
dbetter1: commentators as well!
tejjyid: :-)
dbetter1: i have to come down on nicoleta's side here though andrew - i am happy to say that i play with her often - and when i ...
dbetter1: do, i truly hope we get extra points for being at the 5 level also :)
tejjyid: I can easily believe it :-)
shevek: david reckons that aussies are overbidders :)
dbetter1: happily, i'm 4000 miles away, so its a really long reach for her to kick me :)
tejjyid: We are for sure
shevek: will they reach 3NT ?
dbetter1: i prefer to think of you as optimistic nicoleta :)
tejjyid: East has lots of !D entries to take the !H finesses
shevek: 10 tricks now
shevek: 9 tricks now
shevek: 10
dbetter1: very nice set going for Brightling so far
tejjyid: probably in the (tournamanent) lead now
->tejjyid: i fancy thompson to smash-up ware though
vugraph37: ==================28
tejjyid: let us pray 
tejjyid: 4!H looks Ok to me
shevek: !h + min
dbetter1: Klinger has the right values for a call - does he think he has the right shape?
tejjyid: is a 5-2 fit a super Moysian David?
dbetter1: typically, 3H would have shown an invitation now - Klinger decided that partner should have a good enough hand at this ...
dbetter1: vulnerability to give 3nt play
tejjyid: Looks like an eay 9 tricks
dbetter1: very super
junyi_zhu: yes, easy 3NT
shevek: East can't get in
tejjyid: good aggressive bidding
dbetter1: Neill would not have bid 2h without the 9 of hearts of course :)
shevek: aussie style andrew :)
tejjyid: :-)
tejjyid: One major doesnt work ; I'll try another one
dbetter1: this is a typical situation that arises in bridge often - usually bidding 3nt on 22 combined HCP's isn't recommended, ...
dbetter1: but these hands often play very well when all the values are known to be concentrated in one hand
tejjyid: good point David
tejjyid: often arises after a 1NT overcall also
vugraph37: ===================29
shevek: tight match again
tejjyid: worth lowering your standards for game a little too
dbetter1: definitely - especially when you have Ron Klinger playing the cards for you
shevek: unfortunatelly a draw or a small win not good for either team
tejjyid: this looks flat; EW must lose 2!S 2!C and a !D
dbetter1: defense can put him to a guess in the diamond suit for down 2 - but he's likely to get it right (with ak and length in ...
dbetter1: clubs with the ace of diamonds, north might have bid over 1nt)
tejjyid: itred defence, or a signalling problem
vugraph37: =====================30
shevek: strange , neither of the previous 3-year winners are competing
dbetter1: nice bidding problem for n/s
dbetter1: they should have the auction to themselves
dbetter1: (although i always hesitate to say that)
shevek: Ishmael Del'Monte won the VCC for the last 3 years with different pds and teammates
tejjyid: Thats right...East has a standout !D weak 2
tejjyid: cant believe he didn't employ it
dbetter1: i waited for the first pass :)
tejjyid: and NS are off and relaying
dbetter1: on purpose :)
shevek: they might go too high again :)
tejjyid: If they cant bid this one with the tools at their disposal
shevek: 8!h :)
tejjyid: And now, extra relay steps from the opponents
shevek: 14 tricks easy
tejjyid: this is sometimes the best chance against a relay pair; give them too much room & maybe they'll get lost
dbetter1: lead-directing doubles when your opponents are in a relay sequence can be really dangerous
shevek: especially if you're on lead david :)
dbetter1: considering my leads... i'm on lead way too often
shevek: that's what your pds say?  :)
tejjyid: Time to thank everybody aain
junyi_zhu: Thanks all
dbetter1: heck, you know as well as anyone!
tejjyid: Thanks to the VBA & the ABF and the convenors
tejjyid: Thanks to the commentatos & the spectators
shevek: thx BBO for this great opportunity
tejjyid: Thanks to BBo for making this facility available
vugraph37: that was the last board and all scores are in
tejjyid: and thanks to the players for putting up with it
shevek: thank you specs for watching
dbetter1: so is this result enough for Brightling?  a good match for them against very strong opposition
vugraph37: i'll keep the room open and try to get the results from the other key matches
shevek: and Dave, the operator for a great job
tejjyid: 18-12 is enough to put them in front of Neill, but ...
tejjyid: bye all, time for my lunch
shevek: bye everyone
vugraph37: ok - here are some unofficial results
vugraph37: i stress UNOFFICIAL
vugraph37: thompson def ware 17-13, giving ware 184 vps
vugraph37: the 18-12 to brightling has both brightling and neill on 183
vugraph37: sarten also finished on 183 after a 16-14 loss
vugraph37: so Ware (if my math is correct) is the unofficial winner
vugraph37: brifman (pepsi's team) could've won the event with a 25 but only got 20 in the last match
vugraph37: official results will be on the ABF website in about 20 minutes or so (hopefully)
dbetter1: wow
dbetter1: TY very much - great event and great show
vugraph37: Ware winning is now official
vugraph37: thx for coming everyone - see you at the Australian National Championships in August